By Jim Testa
In 2004, the DIY Convention asked Greg
Attonito of the Bouncing Souls to be its keynote
speaker, but rather than have Greg give a
speech, I was asked to interview Greg onstage.
This was, beyond a doubt, one of the most
rewarding interviews I’ve ever done,
and it tells so much about how the Bouncing
Souls epitomize the DIY spirit of the American
indie underground, that I thought I’d
dust it off and publish it here for the first
time. Special thanks to Bruce Haring at DIYReporter.com
for allowing us to use this (and holding on
to the transcript!) For fun, we’re running
some early photos of the Souls taken by Toni
Lieggi for Jersey Beat back in 1990 and ’91.
JT: I've known Greg and the Bouncing Souls
for a really long time, and Greg knows better
than anybody that when I say something nice
about this band, I really mean it. When I
first saw the Souls, they weren't the best
band in New Jersey; in fact they probably
weren't the best band on their block. (To
Greg) When you
guys started, you were basically in high school,
you really weren't a punk band back then.
You played a lot of funk, a lot of ska, right?
GA: We were figuring out who we were, as
kids do. You hear all kinds of music. Doing
everything, copying everything, ripping everything
off, we were just a bad band.
JT: That obviously didn't last very long.
How many shows have you played in the last
year, year and a half?
GA: In the last fourteenth months, we have
done roughly about 217 shows.
JT: That's a lot of touring, and the logistics
of all that must be insane. When you go out
on tour, obviously someone has to deal with
all the details involved. You've got merchandise,
you've got to get a place to sleep every night,
and you've got people that you bring with
you on the tour that have to get paid -- all
of that doesn't happen overnight. So let's
talk about the journey that brought four high
school kids in a basement to where you are
today. When you first started, obviously it
was just the four of you?
GA: Yeah.
JT: So, who did what? Who booked the shows?
GA: Well in the beginning, the very beginning,
Brian used to steal tee shirts from the supermarket.
We would silkscreen them in the kitchen and
sell 'em, and then eventually, you'd work
and pool all your money. Everything we did,
we pulled together. That is the only way to
do anything, because you can't do anything
by yourself. You want to get together and
have people that are going to agree upon,
and be honest about everything that you do,
and everybody has to want to do it. Without
that agreement between the people, nothing
is going to work. So, technically, we would
work jobs, and whatever needed to be done,
we would throw money in. I was like okay I'm
putting in a hundred bucks this week, or fifty
bucks, and someone would go buy t-shirts.
Then somebody else would get the screens.
So, okay, we'll print 'em tomorrow. And everybody
would just show up. Everybody would do something,
even if it was just hanging up the shirts
to dry. We'd all help out, there was always
a group effort in everything we did. In the
very beginning it was just a total group effort.
JT: What was the first thing that you paid
somebody to do? How about booking?
GA: Yeah in '93, we had a tour we booked,
it was supposed to be with a band called Lifetime,
in the summer of '93. Two weeks before the
tour was supposed to begin, we got a call
and the kid hadn't booked one show. He was
like, "That tour? Oh yeah" He gave
us the number of Margie (Alban), who was new
at booking, she had never booked a tour in
her life, but she had gone to a convention
and decided she wanted to book tours. She
booked our tour in two weeks. We played coffee
shops and kind of zig-zag'd around, we drove
for like ten hours some nights. It was great,
we didn't care, we were just in a band. We
were just really excited to get on tour. Since
then Margie's become amazingly successful,
she's become a major booking agent (Do It
Booking) and she books a lot of great acts.
It's been a relationship where she learned
as we learned all the way, since the beginning.
JT: A lot of the people who are with you
today are like that. Just people that you
met in the beginning, that were much like
you guys, and then fifteen years later.. this
guy runs a record company, your roadie published
a book about your tours. You really have brought
people along for the ride with you.
GA: Yeah, that's been the fun part. I say,
"hey, you want to do this?" "Ok,
I'll do it." That's how everything works,
that sounds about right.
JT: How do the decisions come about as you
continued to grow and get more popular? Like
with your shows. you have to deal with more
and more responsibility, do you just kind
of have meeting and the points come out?
GA: Well I had happened to buy the van as
my car that I had saved up money for. So I
was the guy who would take care of that, I
would go out and buy everything for shows.
Our friend, his name is Wig, he's a friend
of ours from high school, and he had some
rich parents.
JT: So he had lots of money?
GA: Yeah, but if he wanted to use it, he
would have to ask his mom. We would tell him,
hey you should buy some merchandise, we would
just bug him to no end because he wanted to
go to college and we were like come on just
be our merchandise guy on tour. We all finished
high school and he went to college, we
lived together, and we would just be on him
everyday but he never quit. What we would
do is tell him that we had three shows next
weekend, we'd go to his mom's house, we would
drive there, his mom would take us to the
bank and give us like a thousand dollars.
We would buy our t-shirts and print them up,
and then sell them on the weekend, and then
Monday I would go back to his mom and hand
her a thousand bucks, so she loved us. There
were no problems. It started smaller, with
a couple hundred bucks, but then after a couple
of months we would come back for more. Whatever
we needed, she'd let us borrow, because we
were always good for it. So that was the relationship
we developed with Wig. He eventually graduated
college, and he was ready to go on tour, we
had started touring, and he said he wanted
to go on tour with us as tour manager and
he would take care of the shirts. So he started
doing the merchandising, then he teamed up
with a buddy, and after going to college for
environmental science or something, he started
a t-shirt company and now he has a huge t-shirt
company (Dogwig Printing). That's how it happened.
We deal with him, to be specific. It's not
like any regular merch deal. He's responsible
for printing the t-shirts and making sure
they are at the show. He actually pays the
guy who comes with us on tour and sells the
shirts. He takes 35 percent of the profits
and then 5 percent goes to Brian, who does
a lot of work with the artwork and designs,
and the rest comes to the band.
JT: (to audience) I am sure you all know
this, but if you are in a band that's touring
and you don't have merchandise, stay home.
Right, Greg?
GA: Yeah. That's what kept me eating and
paid for my apartment for the last ten years,
the merchandise.
JT:
Who is Timmy Chunks?
GA: Timmy Chunks was a singer in a band called
Token Entry, that's how I first met him. We
liked his band before we met him, and then
we played with his band, and then we ended
up becoming friends. He borrowed money from
his brother-in-law, who gave it to us, so
he borrowed it twice, to put out our first
CD.
JT: On your own record label which is called
Chunksaah. which is sort of named after Timmy.
GA: .. .because-ah he-ah talks-ah like this-ah.
He doesn't really, we exaggerate it to tease
him, but that's where it came from.
JT: So obviously you had a band, you wanted
to put a record out, and you guys are DIY
to the bone, so you started your own label.
GA: Well we weren't originally, I have to
add that. We didn't know anything. We thought,
okay, you put out a record and then you go
to a label, they sign you, and then you get
lots of money, and everything is great. So
this is what we thought, we didn't know anything.
So Brian spent hours drawing these beautiful
things on the packages, like artwork, and
sent them to major labels. Anything he did,
he did it all the way. We thought we were
going to send them to every major label, get
everybody's names, send them packets, the
whole thing, which turned out to be a huge
disappointment. So we went through that, we
learned everything by doing it. We spent all
our time doing that and nothing was happening,
so we pooled our small amount of money that
we had together and decided to do it on our
own. We're still releasing records by bands
that we like.
JT: The song "K8 Is Gr8" is truly
autobiographical - "I used to have a
home and a big garage, and I traded it in.."
Do you remember a specific point where you
got together and said: Okay we're not going
to go to college, we are not going to get
day jobs, we're going to be band!
GA: Yeah there was a few of those, there
were a bunch of moments along the way, beginning
when we were in high school. Brian was trying
out colleges but we didn't even know if we
wanted to do this. So we decided somewhere
in our senior year, let's finish school and
get a place in New Brunswick, and then all
of a sudden we were fully motivated to get
everybody out there, get in the band, buy
a house, it was cool from that point. Then,
you know, you reach different points in your
life. okay you did this, there were so many
points in the first five years where we were
just in this limbo. We didn't have any money
and we didn't
know if this was going to work. It was a matter
of what was in our heart, and I think choosing
a life as a musician is not easy, because
you are in this world where nothing is certain
at all. I think by choosing that life you
are just throwing it all out there, you choose
not having money and you accept it. You get
to points where you just can't handle that.
I got to have some place to live! I got to
have some sort of money! Luckily we all have
people around us that were willing to make
those choices. It's hard if you don't people
around you that you can count on, to back
you up in those moments.
JT: Speaking of "K8 Is Gr8," tell
everyone who is Kate.
GA: Well, Kate (Hiltz) was originally the
boss of a futon shop, Brian got a job there,
I got a job there after that, and she was
our boss at the futon shop and she loved music.
Her and her brother stayed at the house for
years. So she knew the band and she was very
supportive of musicians, so when we would
go on tour she would come. So being around
there all the time, she got intertwined with
what was going on and helping us out, that's
the kind of person that she is, and eventually
she started being a part of the band. Slowly,
all of this stuff that needed to be done,
business-wise, when we started to tour, she
said she would
take care of it and do it. For a while it
was very weird because she wasn't even getting
paid and she was doing it because she enjoyed
seeing the results. She takes care of all
the business, all the numbers. For a while,
it was hard because it was creating some tension,
because she was doing all this work for nothing.
But then finally it got to the point where
we could say, okay, Kate, now you get "x"
percent.
JT: Anyone who knows the Bouncing Souls knows
Kate.
GA: Yes, very much so. She takes care of
all the business and all the numbers.
JT: How did you wind up on BYO?
GA: Shawn Stern (co-owner of BYO Records),
who had been in the band Youth Brigade, saw
the band, saw us in Jersey. So he said I need
a record. It was cool, they were an independent
label. They were going through a time where
they were kind of reorganizing the label,
so it worked really well. In Hoboken, on
his answering machine, he'd be getting mad
messages from people from, like, Denver, asking
if they could get our record, mail was coming
in, we spent a ridiculous amount of money
sending out CD's, it would cost us three bucks
postage just to send a couple of things. You
spend all your money just to get your record
out there. we spent everything we had on a
very low level of getting our record out.
JT: You actually worked at the BYO warehouse
for a while. I remember getting promo packages
from BYO and there'd be a little message scrawled
on the envelope, "Hi Jim, it's the Bouncing
Souls!"
GA: We lived at Shawn's for a couple of months
and then we would just go out on tour. We
didn't really have anyplace to live so we'd
just crash wherever we were until the next
tour came along. We would throw in our money
for bills, groceries, rent. Pete actually
had an apartment in Hoboken with some other
guys, but it got weird. When we were home
we'd all crash there until we got so annoying
that his roommates threw us out, and then
we'd go crash somewhere else for a while until
we could get on another tour.
JT: Even after you had some money coming
in, you were still sleeping on people's couches.
GA: Oh yeah. That's the thing, even in the
last couple of years when we started getting
more success, the expenses also go up. So
things change and now you have a whole new
set of things like you want to become bigger,
we had to self-promote ourselves. We literally
spent our money out of our pocket to go to
Europe, there was nobody else that was going
to do that. Everything gets more expensive.
JT: You went through a couple of years in
the mid '90's the record Bouncing Souls came
out, and then you didn't release anything
for several years. Then you wound up on Epitaph.
How did that happen?
GA: We put the record out on BYO, then toured
on it for all those periods, and we got some
great tours. We were meeting lots of people,
getting sponsors. We met with Brett (Gurewitz,
owner of Epitaph Records), which was another
big step where we had success. He just said
that we were great and we talked to him for
a really long time. His attitude was that
he worked for us, that the label was there
to help the band. Not like the musicians were
just the employees of the label. Brett believes
that an artist should be in charge of his
own career. Maybe because he's a musician
and he's been in bands himself. So Brett understood
that and I think that is why he is so successful.
And that's why we went with Epitaph.
JT: You must have had a lot of major labels
knocking at your door, ready to sign you,
especially in the mid 90's. Did you guys sit
down and say no to all the major labels before
you even talked to them, or did you decide
after?
GA: Well we talked to a couple and we just
weren't comfortable with them. It was just
like, you know what? I don't really like this
guy. It was pretty simple. When we talked
to Brett for two hours where he just telling
us what he does at the label, what he does
for his bands. It was cool. He just knew what
was going on and it all made sense, we respected
him. All of a sudden it was all turned around.
Instead of us trying to kiss some guy's ass
and beg him to sign us to his label, here
was a guy who was coming after us. And it
made sense that way. I busted my ass out there
and I am making music from my heart. If it's
for real, there are people that want to do
the right things with it, and that is what
we all saw in Brett. It registered that we
weren't just a commodity to him.
JT: Let me quote another song, "We lived
our life in our own way, we never listened
to what they say, the kind of faith that doesn't
fade away, we are the true believers."
You go to a Bouncing Souls show, and this
is what you see: Whether it's 50 kids or five
thousand kids, they're all into it, they're
all screaming out the words. And they just
don't know the words, they believe the words.
What's that like, looking out from the stage
every night and seeing all that come back
to you?
GA: It's pretty amazing. It's just way bigger
than I could ever conceive, and it's so cool
to be a part of that.
JT: Have you ever thought about what it is
about your band that reaches people that way?
GA: Well I know when I first originally saw
a band that inspired me, and there was a bunch
of them - Wishbone, Red Hot Chili Peppers,
Yellowman, Toots & The Maytals. When I
went there and saw those bands, it was just
uplifting. As a kid, you are really searching
for something that music can provide. I really
felt something. When I went there, it registered
inside me, and I knew there was something
about it, something that I couldn't even verbalize
at that time, I just knew I wanted to do this,
I knew this was in me. There were a lot of
moments like that. I didn't know at that time
where it would lead me, but it was
really something to think about. In all of
us there is this potential we have, everybody
has it. If you can dream it, you can do it.
I really believe that.
JT: You've written about that in your songs
too. In the song "Kids & Heroes,"
you wrote "Hey, where have I gone? I
used to be the one looking for a hero, In
some far off place, Blindly ever forward,
Never knowing all along, The truth was right
here In my own song." That's not punk
rock; that's poetry, dude.
GA: Thank you, I just have to give credit
to Brian and Pete.
JT: You write about a lot of things in your
songs. You write about being lost, you write
about being depressed. people say write about
what you know, but you really do.
GA: I guess it's just the life that I ended
up leading. So many times I thought, I just
wanna get a regular job. I don't want to do
this anymore. It seems like we want some life
where we don't want to face ourselves, and
I think for so many of us in this world today,
it's easy to let yourself get lost in a
world where you don't have to know yourself.
As much as it sucks playing bars forever,
it's also the most rewarding and empowering
thing that I could be doing. I'm doing all
the things I was born to do, that I ever dreamed
of doing. Whatever we learned we learned from
our parents and society, or whatever, those
things imprison us because we are prone to
take certain roads. I think deep inside people
act like that because they think they don't
have any other choice.
JT: Last night you thanked the audience for
teaching you that your life doesn't suck,
basically that is what you said.
GA: Yeah, basically it's all in my mind.
I don't know how other people perceive life
or how they allow certain things in life to
affect them. So much of the process of coming
through the Bouncing Souls is that it's made
me want to be in this band for the rest of
my life. It's made such a big difference in
figuring it all out. The band has put so much
into my life that now I've totally forgotten
that I'm miserable. It's still there; I don't
know how other people perceive life, I can't
get into their heads, but for me, it's just
my process of getting out this pattern of
learning how to see the world. Music was my
avenue out of that. It's what's made me want
to keep living.
JT: Another song, "New Day." You
wrote, "People tell me they wake up every
day, Wondering if they'll be here tomorrow.
I say live for today cuz everything you have
is just borrowed. No progress made just sittin'
around, TV's selling bullshit by the pound,
Things stay the same are you afraid to ask
why? Fight to
live! Or are you waitin to die?" That's
addressing this very topic. That's totally
what we're talking about.
GA: Everyone has experienced a moment where
you think, Wow, this is amazing! We've all
experienced that. And then you think, well,
how come I'm not like that all the time? These
are the questions that I ask myself and it's
because the circumstances of our lives. You
worry about money, you worry about all this
bullshit. We're so critical of outselves that
way. So Brian, Pete, and I all had that kind
of spirit, and I think that's why we get together
and write that kind of stuff, because with
everything we've been through, we've had to
turn the tears in the opposite direction and
just let go of all the negative stuff that
we hold onto. That's how we do it, with our
music.
JT: This is my favorite Bouncing Souls song:
"I don't want to be this way, kick myself,
wish I could say, that I have no regrets today."
So. Any regrets?
GA: No. Not a one.
JT: There are about ten minutes left anyone
want to ask anything?
(Audience Question) Have you ever thought
about playing overseas for the troops?
GA: Yeah I think it would be cool.
JT: You guys met some troops stateside who
then went to Iraq, I know that on the Bouncing
Souls website, BouncingSouls.com, there is
a thing called "Letters from Iraq"
where the soldiers write you guys about what's
going on over there.
GA: Yeah well we played in Germany and we
met a bunch of soldiers, and we spent a weekend
where we all went out together. They were
all leaving for Iraq in a couple of days.
They were very nervous and they didn't know
what was going to happen. It ended up being
those guys on our website, the ones writing
in the "Letters From Iraq" thing
on our website. And they're over there driving
tanks in their Bouncing Souls t-shirts and
shooting off these really big guns with Bouncing
Souls written on the side. (So the website)
in a way, it's an unofficial Bouncing Souls
way to pay tribute to the troops. As far as
going over there to play, I don't know if
they would accept us, maybe they would, maybe
we should look into it more, because I would
really like to go there and do that.
JT: Last night was the Rock Against Bush
show and I know you guys have been active
with PunkVoter.com. Do you have anything you
want to say about the election coming up?
GA: Just get out there and vote. In the past
I have been apathetic towards thinking that
this has nothing to do with me, it's a whole
other world. But this year we all just have
to get out and vote.
JT: Here here. Question?
(Audience Question) What do you think of
the current NJ music scene and especially
what's going on with the revival in Asbury
Park?
GA: Well I'm kind of the last guy to ask
about the actual scene in Jersey because I
have been on tour for the last eight months.
I really don't know specific things that are
going on in Jersey, but in Asbury Park it
looks like there is a revival of a lot of
things in music. I think by the nature of
the way music is supported in America, it's
like the last thing that has any real help.
You go to Europe and they have these amazing
venues, the shows there are great, they have
awesome accommodations for bands. You play
the show and then they feed you this amazing
home cooked meal, and then they come out and
ask, "Eez everything okay?" We are
just a punk band, you know? When I first went
there I said "you got to be kidding me,
bro, But then you're like, wait a second,
they appreciate music, they are not trying
to throw a bag of chips at you and a six pack
and say, well, we don't have to do anything
else. People just get this attitude here.
I am just generalizing very big, there are
some amazing promoters in America, there are
some amazing people in America, I am generalizing,
and I am America-bashing either. I am just
setting an example for other places, I am
just studying examples of other places and
how it's done, and I've always thought that
the way it's done in Europe is really cool.
I ask myself, why can't this happen in America?
Everything is there, the beds are so cheap,
you can just go there, and eat and sleep for
next to nothing. I'm just rambling here.
JT: I can say that if the Bouncing Souls
were eighteen again, they would have a much
harder time.
GA: Definitely.
JT: I think in certain ways New Jersey was
a much more hospitable place back in the late
Eighties and early Nineties. You guys benefited
hugely from City Gardens, that was a venue
where you could play to a thousand people
at one show and reach more fans that you could
at 50 basement shows. On the other hand, for
the average punk bands that are starting out
today, to go out and tour today is much easier.
The Internet makes it easier. The network
that (the Bouncing Souls) and the generation
before you created is there. So bands today
can take advantage of that. To get out of
town is probably easier; playing in New Jersey,
it's probably harder.
GA: This I wouldn't know.
(Audience Question) Any advice on how to
keep a band together, especially when the
relationships between the members of the band
get strained sometimes?
JT: Sometimes different members of the bands
have different goals or a different level
of commitment. How do you work those kinds
of problems out and keep the band together?
GA: You have to be totally honest about what
you want to do. Everyone has to be honest.
You have to like each other, you have to like
being around each other all the time, because
you are going to be around each other all
the time. It's like getting married and you
have to appreciate everyone's ideas and respect
them, even if you might not like them. If
they are determined to do something that you
don't like, always state your opinion. And
be aware that there are all these things that
go into a relationship. Most of all, you have
to want to do it. You have to love it.
JT: A couple of friends of the Bouncing Souls
put together a DVD called Do You Remember?
Fifteen Years of Bouncing Souls. It's available
from the Chunksaah website, and it's an amazing
documentary of the band's history, if you
haven't seen it. It's totally honest. I mean
they deal with things like when Shah (the
first drummer) left the band, things that
Greg and Brian has gone through, every piece
of dirty laundry is in there, , including
all the good memories, people throwing toilets
off of roofs. . These guys had some pretty
crazy years. I would totally recommend that
you pick this up. Not only that but it's a
fun movie to watch, and you'll find out everything
about the Bouncing Souls that you wanted to
know. It shows you brick by brick how they
built where they are today. It's a really
well done piece of work.
(Audience Question) What's the next step?
GA: I don't know. Right here. Here we are
right now. That's the way we have always done
it. So what do we do now? Whatever we feel.
Musically, whatever. we'll see.
